NOTE: This discussion focuses on sexual violence. The specifics discussed may be disturbing for some.

On this week’s episode of ‘Unshocked’, Naomi Klein speaks with fellow Zeteo contributor Rula Jebreal about the alarming pro-rape riots in Israel that made international headlines earlier this week and, as Naomi put it, “the impunity that produced these shocking scenes.”

In case you missed the news, for months now, there have been leaked reports about rampant torture and rape of Palestinian prisoners at Israel’s notorious Sde Teiman detention center. Israel announced earlier this week it detained nine Israeli soldiers for questioning over the suspected rape and abuse of a Palestinian man from Gaza in the prison. But news of the investigation led to hundreds of citizens, including government ministers, protesting against the probe in support of the soldiers and their right to rape Palestinian prisoners. Angry mobs stormed Sde Teiman and another military base.

If it sounds shocking, it is – and that’s exactly why this week’s episode of ‘Unshocked’ took on this story, to step back and talk about the bigger picture.

“I never seen in my lifetime any entity, any regime, any soldier, or even a mob, protesting and raiding military bases, demanding or defending the right of soldiers to rape and use rape as a weapon of war,” Rula tells Naomi. “Israeli politicians are demanding to protect rapists in the name of self-defense… promoting the policy as a legitimate tool of war.”

Naomi talked about how governments use torture as a kind of propaganda. “Torture is always mass communication,” she explains, “You want people to know because it’s part of how you discipline a population. You want the warning. But you also want the plausible deniability in the face of international courts. And so, there is a level of secrecy that has to coexist with that. There’s a reason they released the photos from Guantanamo, right?”

Naomi and Rula’s timely conversation discussed the use of rape as a tool of war, including October 7, the double standards from the international community when it comes to this topic, what the riots say about Israel today, and the U.S. role in all of this, especially what might be the positions of the presumptive Democratic presidential nominee, Kamala Harris.

As Naomi says in the episode, “It has been very difficult to have honest conversations about sexual violence… and yet, we have to have these honest conversations.”

Paid subscribers can watch the full episode above (free subscribers get a five-minute free view); or listen to ‘Unshocked’ wherever you get your podcasts:

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‘Unshocked’ is a monthly conversation with acclaimed author and activist Naomi Klein, where she and Mehdi pull viewers ‘out of shock’ through analysis, facts, and history.