In this new episode of ‘Unshocked,’ the first of 2025, Naomi and Mehdi discuss the first ten days of President Donald J. Trump’s second term and his intentional use of “shock and awe” tactics, with his administration issuing a seemingly endless series of draconian and contentious executive orders, including ending DEI in the government, freezing federal money and grants, and ordering ICE to raid migrant communities – including in church!

“They’re sending that fear through every institution. And, of course, with the shocking immigration raids, it is a very tangible fear,” Naomi says to Mehdi. “It’s designed to make you curl up in a ball and give up.”

“It is about numbing us. It is about making the public not be able to keep up, journalists not be able to keep up,” Mehdi says to Naomi.

In the conversation, Mehdi and Naomi also discuss why Trump and the tech oligarchs that surround him are not worried about “burning down” social programs, healthcare, the environment, or US institutions.

“The billionaires who he’s [Trump] really serving… their wealth really does protect them,” Naomi says to Mehdi. “I personally believe that Trump knows that the climate crisis is real. He sort of has to because Mar-a-Lago is very vulnerable. But… they’ve all calculated that they’re going to be fine.”

The two also discuss Trump’s call for the US to pursue “manifest destiny into the stars,” and how Silicon Valley’s obsession with space plays into Trump’s destructive actions.

“I think space is really just a kind of clunky metaphor for what they’re doing down here, which is building their escape hatches,” Naomi says to Mehdi.

“They don’t care what happens in the long run because – as you say – they’ve written off the planet, they’ve written off society. They’re all about their bottom line,” Mehdi says to Naomi.

Watch the full conversation above to hear about the use of ‘shock and awe’ during the Iraq War, Democrats’ failure to be a trusted messenger, and how the message of Naomi’s book, “The Shock Doctrine,” can be used to take people out of the shock Trump has put them into.

Free subscribers can watch a 9-minute preview of the episode. To access the full interview, consider upgrading to a paid subscription.

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‘Unshocked’ is a monthly conversation with acclaimed author and activist Naomi Klein, where she and Mehdi pull viewers ‘out of shock’ through analysis, facts, and history.